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Ron Paul vs. Michael Moore on Larry King...

Ron Paul talks with Larry King about Michael Moore's view of Capitalism, foreign policy, and health care.

  • GIB76
  • posted by GIB76
  • Date 11/2/2009 8:49:19 PM
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15 Comments

Current View: 15 / Show all Comments

Red Heaven : LVL 40: VP 4.8: said:

Red Heaven

15 votes NegativePositive

21 days 13 hours ago...

Too much regulation of business?

Theodore Roosevelt is ROLLING in his grave.

In regards to his health care, I think Larry King`s reaction to him was about the same as mine. I caught the flu about two days ago. Right now I`m trying to just survive through it.

And yeah, I -could- just go to a hospital. Sure, they won`t turn me away. However, they`ll be more than happy to send me a massive bill. Shit, just last year I was forced to go into the emergency room because I had an inner and outer ear infection.

The cost to wait in the lobby, then wait in the room, then have a doctor poke around in my ear and prsecribe medication for $1,300.

And people are going to India for surgery and stuff? Oh, well, good for them. Must be nice to be able to afford the expense of flying across the world. Look Ron, those aren`t the people this fucking debate is talking about.

We`re talking about the 120 people that DIED yesterday because they couldn`t afford health care. You know, people that are DIRT poor. Does he even KNOW there are people in this "wonderful capitalistic state" that are too poor to pay to live?

GIB76 : LVL 33: VP 4.2: said:

GIB76

-4 votes NegativePositive

21 days 11 hours ago...

^
Here in Canada we have "free" health care system, and trust me, don`t get sick!

For an MRI the waiting list is about 4 to 6 months, you can die before to get diagnosed. So people who don`t want to wait they go to private clinics and pay 800$ to get the MRI done in the same week.

So at the end we pay twice, the goverment take it from our paycheck for the public health care and if your get sick and need a fast consultation you pay again at private clinics!

funberg : LVL 49: VP 5: said:

funberg

6 votes NegativePositive

21 days 10 hours ago...

^Here in America 80-85 percent of people have health insurance, and the insurance companies takes a 1/3 of the money that those 80% pay them and give nothing in return. If insurance were to become nonprofit overnight, without anything changing(everyone paying the same amount for insurance as now, the people that didn`t have insurance still paying nothing), there would be enough money to insure every single person and have extra to cover more diseases and procedures.

Yes there would be longer lines if every one could afford insurance, at least until the thousands of new jobs for doctors and nurses were filled(and yes the industry of billionaire insurers would shrink a little, tragic I know). But the argument about longer line is one of the most revolting argument I`ve heard(and have heard from several people I have a lot of respect for). I know when people say it they aren`t thinking it through, but they are saying that if everyone can afford to get lifesaving medicine they will get it before me, if they need it before me. Essentially saying that those 45 million people should stay outside and die so I can get attention quicker.

fryser_d : LVL 42: VP 5: said:

fryser_d

9 votes NegativePositive

21 days 10 hours ago...

@Red Heaven

- Go to a latino market and buy some "Coca Tea", it only existed for 10 000years and probably gonna cure you in 3-4 days :P

tiGGr : LVL 31: VP 4: said:

tiGGr

-2 votes NegativePositive

21 days 10 hours ago...

and they give crap how china runs....

it works it works so shut up
some people never been to china esp american and they give crap eg "communist this and etc"

Gimli000 : LVL 35: VP 4.3: said:

Gimli000

0 votes NegativePositive

20 days 23 hours ago...

^Yes I`m sure any government could achieve all manner of things if it can trample human rights. Do you even know what Tiananmen Square is known for around the world? Oh that`s right, your government blocks those pages...

On topic, interesting video. Ron Paul is always thought provoking. Where his argument falls down is that health insurance is just like any government tax, only you can remove profiteering when it`s run by public servants.

Innominate : LVL 6: VP 1.5: said:

Innominate

2 votes NegativePositive

20 days 18 hours ago...

I respect Ron Paul quite a lot. Not because I agree with him, but because he`s always easy to understand and straightforward. But every time he opens his mouth about capitalism I want to wring his neck. The problem is not that he`s incorrect, it`s that I simply don`t like the idea of capitalism. However, whenever he speaks he seems to bring up the same problems that all stripes of progressives do from libertarian to socialists to communists to fascist to capitalists. And I end up agreeing with him!

He`s right when he talk about corporatism, the biggest force both resisting change and creating change(to corporate benefit). It`s the biggest problem to any political movement seeking to make significant change and often is the cause of much of what many of us complain about regarding government, economics, globalization etc.

He`s also correct when he says the US doesn`t have capitalism, but in the same way the US does not have socialism. These systems require rules for behavior in order for them to work as the designer`s intended. But the problem is that quite often, breaking those rules garners greater rewards. There is an incentive to cheat the system(whatever system it is) or change the rules to ones own benefit, especially when only a few do it(or can do it).

Corporatism is an example of a power group that doesn`t care about ideology or perfect systems, they care about completing their goals(whatever they are, often gaining money/power). And to do that, they break the rules and change the rules. No system can exist or work as intended with such a powerful force demanding change. Both capitalists and socialists often talk fondly about their perfect little systems that will never exists, they are both utopian and both almost completely impossible.

While I don`t agree with capitalism, i`m forced to agree about the mutual struggle we idealists are in together, i`m forced to agree with a capitalist.

As for healthcare, as a canadian, i`m not totally pleased with the lack of expedient service, but there is no question I prefer what I have now to private health insurance. The simple question is this:Would you as a low-middle/low income level(which MOST people are) want to pay american insurance rates for unreliable, partial coverage or pay 1000-1500cdn a year for COMPLETELY UNBIASED(pre existing conditions included) coverage you sometimes have to wait a while for?

A government run/funded program has one important distinction from private, it has the capacity to run at a loss or a very slight profit if needed.

Rboy : LVL 35: VP 4.3: said:

Rboy

7 votes NegativePositive

20 days 5 hours ago...

@GIB76
I live in Alberta and NO we don`t have to wait 4-6 months for an MRI
in 1 month I got my ultrasound and saw 3 doctors
and didn`t have to pay extra, and the main reason it took long is because they made an appointment that did not mess up my day.

also true Capitalism cannot and should not exist! period!
because corporations have no feelings and mercy
and they would fast grow into Monopolies
so you would have one company setting the price for everything from gas to Food
we would all be slaves,Literally to the corporation

SleazeChieftain : LVL 34: VP 4.2: said:

SleazeChieftain

-7 votes NegativePositive

18 days 4 hours ago...

No offense Red Heaven, but from what I`ve seen you post here and under other videos, you are probably the sickest person known to man without HIV/AIDs. Take better care of yourself and maybe you won`t have to worry about massive hospital bills that often. The flu is understandable, but an ear infection? How do you even get an ear infection other than getting ear-penetrated/raped?

JimCarrSavannah : LVL 39: VP 4.7: said:

JimCarrSavannah

-1 votes NegativePositive

18 days 3 hours ago...

So "you can go to SIngapore for your health care needs" is an example of the free market working well, in this idiots opinion..... awesome.

pwningnubs : LVL 38: VP 4.6: said:

pwningnubs

-1 votes NegativePositive

18 days 3 hours ago...

All the isms he was saying reminded me of the governor in the movie "O`Brother Where Art Thou?".

meshblorg : LVL 21: VP 3: said:

meshblorg

2 votes NegativePositive

18 days 3 hours ago...

Central economic planning by Washington has fucked up the healthcare system and has aided the big corporate insurance companies. Big corporations and Big Government aren`t enemies, they`re best friends! The way to get the Big Corporations out of control is to make sure the government does not have the rights and power to carry out the corporations desires. The Constitution was setup to protect us from government and that is quickly being eroded away to give way to a neo-fascist corporatism with socialist overtones. We`re looking a global currency and global government and that should terrify every individual who values their freedom and liberty.

thrasymacus2000 : LVL 37: VP 4.5: said:

thrasymacus2000

4 votes NegativePositive

18 days 2 hours ago...

The median wait for an MRI across Canada was 10.1 weeks. Patients in Ontario experienced the shortest wait for an MRI (7.8 weeks), while Newfoundland and Labrador residents waited longest (20.0 weeks).

-taken from the CBC, to which I`ll add the basis of Canadian Healthcare is universality and transferability. That means the people in Newfoundland can make the drive to Ontario to expedite things and there wont` be any consequence, other than a pleasant drive through Quebec.

I disagree with Ron Paul BUT he makes a key distinction (hammers it home in fact) between Capitalism and Corporatism. I`m sure Moore is aware of the difference, but he`d lose his audience if he had catch them all up on the last 50 years of world history and the emergence of Corporatist and Technocrats as the dominant political force today.

Deathhawk : LVL 8: VP 1.7: said:

Deathhawk

-3 votes NegativePositive

18 days 1 hour ago...

During the election he just wasn`t given sufficient media exposure. Terrible shame. Obama doesn`t come close. Not by any stretch roflmao.

scruples : LVL 28: VP 3.7: said:

scruples

5 votes NegativePositive

17 days 23 hours ago...

he claims, "people aren`t turned away". Yeah from emergency rooms, so if you have cancer you have to wait until you collapse from a tumor putting pressure on your brain...sounds great.

in response to "everyone deserves universal healthcare" he basically just says "socialism doesn`t work" pathetic argument

at some point he claims "free markets will solve corporatism" I can`t even explain in words how wrong this is, it would require me to write a book or something, just play bioshock and you will understand.

and then when larry king says "we need some socialism, pure capitalism cant work" he responds (sigh)

"I practice OBGYN ,I never tell my patient they have a touch of pregnancy.
You are either pregnant or you`re not"
"you either have govn`t intervention messing up markets or you dont"

did he just have a stroke?
that is the worst analogy I`ve ever heard.

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