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Rand Paul on Universal Healthcare

This is Ron Paul's son for you slow ones

  • sh0wtym3
  • posted by sh0wtym3
  • Date 8/14/2009 6:50:17 AM
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13 Comments

Current View: 15 / Show all Comments

sh0wtym3 : LVL 34: VP 4.2: said:

sh0wtym3

-2 votes NegativePositive

102 days 13 hours ago...

I know this probably won`t make it to the main page since this is spikedhumor.com and I added an "anti-obama" video, but Rand makes some valid points.

Swiffo : LVL 6: VP 1.5: said:

Swiffo

-1 votes NegativePositive

102 days 10 hours ago...

This is retarded.

So rather than actually looking up how cost-effective private insurance is compared to medicare he just uses some cheap ideological dogma to "feel" the facts. 99% of medicare goes to paying medical costs averaging below the market rate (due to collective bargaining)? Almost every other developed country on the planet already has single-payer healthcare and they all work about the same way? Screw facts, he`s going to look it up in his gut.

Bonus points for inserting a pet issue he actually does care about (the dirty Mexicans are destroying everything!!!1!) based on some random person who mistakenly thought a figure included illegal aliens.

Oh, and absolutely do not encourage, subsidize, or suggest to anyone to use a savings account as a replacement for medical insurance. I should not even have to explain this one. And if your "libertarian" government is forcing you to use the account for only medical expenses in exchange for a subsidy? Wow.

exploder : LVL 49: VP 5: said:

exploder

1 votes NegativePositive

102 days 9 hours ago...

^ Bang on. And let`s not forget that the MESS we have now is THE DIRECT RESULT of capitalism. The winners got so powerful that they corrupted the government, until you can hardly tell who is who (government / corporate) any more.

It all ends in rule by mafia.

In the real world, most governments aren`t strong enough to stand against unrestrained corporate capitalist interests. When the capitalist free market dominates, they take over the government, both in person and by money, and the people have little to no effective representation any more. The government, the legal system, the public, everything becomes enslaved to the profit motive.

The only thing that seems to help make governments strong enough is a small dose of socialist thinking. In practical terms it means the government is thinking about, and willing to legislate for the public good at the expense of pure unrestrained profit just for the sake of fulfilling capitalist ideology.

I view this as the simple and healthy recognition that "what makes the most money" is not the answer to every question in the universe.

Lots of countries have prudent moderate socialism in government to help control their capitalist economies, and it seems to stop really nasty shit like what the financials and medical insurance in the US have been doing. IE. highway robbery.

Socialized medical care spreads the costs quite nicely. All you capitalist "why should I pay for you?" types are whiners. The real cost is no big deal when crooks don`t double the price. In fact, at a fair price, it`s a positive charitable pleasure to pay a small part for EVERYONE`S well being. Yay Canada.

Flynn_2006 : LVL 46: VP 5: said:

Flynn_2006

-2 votes NegativePositive

102 days 9 hours ago...

"A claim for equality of material position can be met only by a government with totalitarian powers." F.A Hayek.

sh0wtym3 : LVL 34: VP 4.2: said:

sh0wtym3

-1 votes NegativePositive

102 days 9 hours ago...

What I don`t like about nationalizing healthcare, at least with Obama`s bill specifically:

1. Can`t choose my own doctor
2. The government will get direct access to debit funds from my bank account (oh hell no)
3. Old people will have "consultations" on whether they should continue to be given "life sustaining" medicines
4. Inevitable long waits no matter where you go because people will abuse free health care
5. Health care is a privilege not a right.
6. We can`t afford to pay for it

Nose Nuggets : LVL 14: VP 2.3: said:

Nose Nuggets

0 votes NegativePositive

102 days 8 hours ago...

wow wow wow. we are not in this mess because of capitalism. there is zero capitalism in American health care. we subsidize, give tax cuts, and create legislation for the benefit of a few large insurance and medical companies. that`s the precise oposit of capitalism.

You cant use Medicare as a pro Obama plan argument; Medicare and Medicade are both broke. the fact that people who are on those services like it, is entirely irreverent. its unsustainable.

You also cant say "other countries have good socialized medicine systems" because none of those countries are even CLOSE to the debt we have. no where near it.

if you want to make arguments you need to use applicable information and not wild irrelevant comparisons.

calling me a whiner for not wanting to pay for illegal aliens health care is absurd.

koryo : LVL 36: VP 4.4: said:

koryo

0 votes NegativePositive

102 days 7 hours ago...

^^I especially agree with your #1 point showtym3. This is a very personal one for me. I am diagnosed with Chiari Malformation Type 1.

I`ll bet almost none of you have heard of this disease, neither have most doctors(including neurosurgeons). That`s where my problem comes in.

I need to be able to see Neurosurgeons who specialize in this disease and this new health care system will be a major roll of the dice for me.

NO THANKS!!

funberg : LVL 48: VP 5: said:

funberg

1 votes NegativePositive

102 days 4 hours ago...

^^^That`s a nice list of things you just made up.

1. There are no finalized bills yet, only several proposals.
2. If there was a bill, it wouldn`t be Obamas, that`s not how the legislative process works.
3. None of the proposals say you can`t choose your own doctor.
4. Access to your bank account?? bullshit on a stick.
5. End of life counseling; added to one of the proposals by a republican to reimburse doctors for consultation on living wills if you feel so inclined, putting the choice of end life actions in the hands of the individual, not the government or doctors. The exact composite of death panels.
6. None of the bills have any `free` or single payer plans in them, expanding medicare has been talked about, but for most people the only thing on the table right now is a public, not-for-profit OPTION.
7. We apparently can afford to build billion dollar war planes, and drop million dollar bombs on brown kids, that would insure a lot of Americans or even the profits that went up 400% since 2000 for the health care insures, would cover most of the people that can`t afford to live, let alone pursue happiness which I`ve heard is a right.

And if you want something to get to the front page, you might want to start by not calling the people about to vote on it slow.

When I say that there is no finalized bill I mean that for any intensive purpose there is no one bill that can be passed into law, that is why compromises are still on the table, without having to use the process of amendments. Everyone can agree that we need a good bill, but making shit up doesn`t help that, when explained the public option gets overwhelming support across all demographics, unless you are invested in insurers then you do just want to shut it down, people be damned, all hail the bottom line.

_spike_ : LVL 31: VP 4: said:

_spike_

-1 votes NegativePositive

102 days 3 hours ago...

http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h3200/text

No, no bill at all...why don`t we do our research anymore children?


Also, people do not understand the quality of care we have, everyone acts like we have horrific care, that our standards are low and that the vast majority of our population has zero insurance. First, no hospital would turn you away, every hospital will get refunded for care they provide that does not get paid for. Many patients get highly critical and long lasting care that costs millions when it is all said and done and the whole time it is being done its known that the pt in question will not be able to pay it.

This plan is to make our care cheap, they are going to totally standardize care, there will no longer be a wide degree of options. The care given will be selected based on the best cost to performance ratio, not simply what offers the best results. This plan sets a precedent that the government can determine if you are "worth" the expenditure, in short they can decide if your life is worth it based on cost.

Don`t forget that many of the technologies used in socialized markets are made by companies run from the united states. Our market gives a large increase to the innovation we see, it also forces competition. If we allow the govt to take over all of that will go away.

A final word, why would you spikedhumor users, of all people trust the government? The people writing this bill have exempted themselves from it totally. These are the same people who have lied, cheated and stolen from us. These people gave bush his wars, some of them knew about the torture. Obama is not anything new, he is just bush with a better smile, when you look at what is actually being done (again research, don`t listen to what these people say) his policies are very similar, and most of the senators are from the bush era. The politicians are just different puppets, it is still the same puppet master. Honestly, who in their right mind would trust the continual cluster fuck that is the government to provide care for everyone?

hittindz : LVL 20: VP 2.9: said:

hittindz

-2 votes NegativePositive

102 days 1 hour ago...

@ showtyme because we all obviously are aware with who ron paul`s children are. btw, w/o checking any search engines, what were the names of bush`s daughters? how about obama`s? exactly...

More than the 46 mil or so of the uninsured have no clue who ron paul is anyway, so rather than sit there on your high horse, why don`t you realize the facts. asshole

Swiffo : LVL 6: VP 1.5: said:

Swiffo

0 votes NegativePositive

101 days 23 hours ago...

It really doesn`t have to do with whether capitalism is good or bad. The dynamics of some services work in such a way as to inevitably make them possible, but seriously screwed-up if approached with a standard free-market system.

In most cases, like funeral services or tech support, that doesn`t matter much. In a few cases, like fire and police services, it does.

No single approach works best in every situation. Government programs resist corruption perfectly well as long as they stick to what they`re good at: well-defined problems, solutions, and pretext for government involvement and areas that don`t attract the meddling of the power-hungry.

Venomousvole : LVL 39: VP 4.7: said:

Venomousvole

-1 votes NegativePositive

101 days 15 hours ago...

bringing capitalism back!? what planet are you living on Dickhead?
I`m starting to lose sympathy, you don`t won`t mean old socialism? fine fuck you. as in the insurance and pharma corps fuck you, from here to the bitter end fuckers.

sh0wtym3 : LVL 34: VP 4.2: said:

sh0wtym3

-1 votes NegativePositive

101 days 10 hours ago...

lol @ hittindz. My description was sarcastic dickweed. Go find a sense of humor and then come back to spikedHUMOR.com

And funberg your post is dead wrong in so many ways that I don`t even know where to start. But I do know where you should start... by reading the actual BILL. Yes, there`s a BILL. Not a "proposal". It`s called H.R.3200

kthxbai

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