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Old Socialism Cartoon

The true source of the GOP's "socialism" attacks against President Obama have been unearthed.

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15 Comments

Current View: 15 / Show all Comments

Cadmius : LVL 32: VP 4.1: said:

Cadmius

4 votes NegativePositive

114 days 12 hours ago...

and people say cartoons aren`t educational

exploder : LVL 49: VP 5: said:

exploder

20 votes NegativePositive

114 days 11 hours ago...

This film brought to you by the greedy tycoons of America.

Wow, I`m so much better informed now.

I bet that any time a virgin continent meets an industrial / scientific / technological / social revolution, you`re gonna see some amazing stuff happen.

All you capitalists out there, don`t seem to be doing so hot now that your country is nearly out of oil, easy to mine metal, endless virgin forests, fresh farmland, vast herds of free wildlife, and new free land to settle for all.

Sorry, I`m sure all that had NOTHING to do with it at all.

Your wonderful free market capitalism has failed by it`s own unlimited success. Those "tycoons" got too powerfull. And your country never has invested much in the ethic of doing things purely for the public good, or for the longer future.

The greatest social enemy is greed, and the corruption it so easily breeds. Capitalism will drink itself to death on its own success unless ballanced by a moderate pro-social ethic.

We know communism fell, and I bet it really fell to corruption from within, not some fundamental flaw of premise. American capitalism as we see it is just as sick with the same disease.

How else can you explain the FACT that communist-come-capitalist China now practically owns you?

Hint: Russia / USSR was always just a cover for totalitarian rule by elite. China, imperfect and brutal, but hard working, made some real success with the same idea. They climbed from the iron age straight onto the bleeding edge of technology in spite of billions of impoverished people and already well used lands.

It`s not just one system vs. another that dictates this whole thing, it`s the integrity and unity of the people working together, with some honesty and fairness and genuine good will. Some free resources also help alot. That`s what really makes success.

johnpaulbland : LVL 39: VP 4.7: said:

johnpaulbland

2 votes NegativePositive

114 days 9 hours ago...

Good stuff, sums it all up.

mostafa.redha : LVL 41: VP 4.9: said:

mostafa.redha

0 votes NegativePositive

114 days 5 hours ago...

Cool, that was pretty informative. Boo, down with socialism... And capitalism...

acadieman : LVL 37: VP 4.5: said:

acadieman

2 votes NegativePositive

114 days 4 hours ago...

its funny, their definition of socialism actually looks like America today. :s

GameWarrior2216 : LVL 23: VP 3.2: said:

GameWarrior2216

-2 votes NegativePositive

114 days 2 hours ago...

^ It`s because of Obama.

sum_guy : LVL 42: VP 5: said:

sum_guy

2 votes NegativePositive

113 days 20 hours ago...

lol at 1:45- "the right to worship god in your own way"

exploder : LVL 49: VP 5: said:

exploder

3 votes NegativePositive

113 days 18 hours ago...

^ yeah, you can tell just how honest that statement is by how it leaves out "or not to."

Amore18 : LVL 16: VP 2.5: said:

Amore18

2 votes NegativePositive

113 days 18 hours ago...

Exploder:

This film brought to you by the greedy tycoons of America
- Because politicians CAN`T be greedy??? Aren`t they human as well? Hmmm

Your wonderful free market capitalism has failed by it`s own unlimited success. Those "tycoons" got too powerfull. And your country never has invested much in the ethic of doing things purely for the public good, or for the longer future.
- Tycoons have done more good than politicians have done. They both have had their faults except politician faults are worse by it`s very nature of it being all powerful.

The greatest social enemy is greed, and the corruption it so easily breeds. Capitalism will drink itself to death on its own success unless ballanced by a moderate pro-social ethic.
- A little naive? Politicians go into it for the power much like cops. They all need their power fixes and money comes at them all the time because of their position of power.

We know communism fell, and I bet it really fell to corruption from within, not some fundamental flaw of premise. American capitalism as we see it is just as sick with the same disease.
- You just proved my point. This is a HUMAN problem not a SYSTEMATIC problem. The solution is to find a way to yield the HUMAN element from affecting EVERYBODY. Thus FREEDOM was born and CAPITALISM was it`s twin brother. Now we can tell the bad "tycoons" to F*** themselves if they try to screw us over. Try telling the GOVERNMENT to go F*** themselves. They would just arrest you, but can SHELL arrest you? Nope.

It`s not just one system vs. another that dictates this whole thing, it`s the integrity and unity of the people working together, with some honesty and fairness and genuine good will. Some free resources also help alot. That`s what really makes success.
- You naivety makes me laugh. Let`s all join hands and dance around a rainbow with unicorns while we`re at it.

There are VERY bad people in this world and you know what they do? They try to grab as much power as F`ing possible. Best way to do it? Become a politician and make laws and grab for more power and they call it socialism.

Red Heaven : LVL 38: VP 4.6: said:

Red Heaven

9 votes NegativePositive

112 days 21 hours ago...

"Oh no! The STATE might step in!"

Yeah, heaven forbid we have the Anti-Trust Act and the Pure Food and Drug Act to tell businesses how to run.

The only reason everyone here isn`t living out of a page of Upton Sinclair`s `The Jungle` is because of government intervention.

You all have it good and well NOW because the government, not business, demands it. All this love of corporations and capitalism that would just as soon shackle you penniless.

exploder : LVL 49: VP 5: said:

exploder

3 votes NegativePositive

112 days 20 hours ago...

^ Amen, those interventions are a good start on the moderate pro-social controls I`m in favour of. And it aids our point that where those controls fail, is mainly a matter of them being corrupted by the very same corporate power they were meant to keep in ballance. They do not fail because they try to do stupid shit on behalf of stupid people. They fail because stupid people fail to protect themselves enough from greed.

Mark333 : LVL 34: VP 4.2: said:

Mark333

2 votes NegativePositive

112 days 6 hours ago...

"The greatest social enemy is greed, and the corruption it so easily breeds."

As a free marketeer, I don`t consider greed as good. If men were always altruistic the world would naturally be a better place. I only consider greed as an inevitable part of human nature and we have to design social systems to take that into account. The capitalist system keeps greed in check by forcing the ambitious and greedy to provide goods and services to consumers without coercion or fraud while in competition with other capitalists (who may or may not be as greedy). So far it has done far better in minimizing corruption and concentrations of power than socialist systems. The USA maybe the most unequal developed country in the world, but surely it is nothing compared to the disparity between Castro/Kim Jong Il and the common Cuban/North Korean. So far I don`t know of any capitalist that has much power over the common man as these dictators do.

"If men were angles, there would be no need for government." -Frederich Bastiat

A quote from Franz Oppenheimer:

""There are two fundamentally opposed means whereby man, requiring sustenance, is impelled to obtain the necessary means for satisfying his desires. These are work and robbery, one`s own labor and the forcible appropriation of the labor of others. Robbery! Forcible appropriation! These words convey to us ideas of crime and the penitentiary, since we are the contemporaries of a developed civilization, specifically based on the inviolability of property. And this tang is not lost when we are convinced that land and sea robbery is the primitive relation of life, just as the warrior`s trade - which also for a long time is only organized mass robbery - constitutes the most respected of occupations. Both because of this, and also on account of the need of having, in the further development of this study, terse, clear, sharply opposing terms for these very important contrasts, I propose i. the following discussion to call one`s own labor and the equivalent exchange of one`s own labor for the labor of others, the “economic means" for the satisfaction of needs, while the unrequited appropriation of the labor of others will be called the "political means.""

Question is: what system provides the least coercion and possibility of abuse of power? Is it easier to bring down a capitalist or a dictator? What are the checks one would substitute the free and open competition of capitalism with? Would they be as EFFECTIVE and practical? What is the best measure of the value of one`s labor? The market (selfish consumers)? A bureaucrat? Voters-who-like-to-get-things-for-free-like-selfish-consumers? Something I haven`t thought of?

Mark333 : LVL 34: VP 4.2: said:

Mark333

3 votes NegativePositive

112 days 6 hours ago...

"How else can you explain the FACT that communist-come-capitalist China now practically owns you?"

Not quite exploder :), China has just as much interest in ensuring the US recovers as the US. Their more than $1T treasury bills would become quite worthless otherwise. And the FED can pay China back by just printing money out of thin air. Crises will always be with capitalism but the US will weather this storm alright. Already its exports are recovering (thanks to a weaker dollar) and China trade surplus is going down. The US may no longer be the sole global superpower as before (though unlikely) but that is irrelevant to us free market types.

"All you capitalists out there, don`t seem to be doing so hot now that your country is nearly out of oil, easy to mine metal, endless virgin forests, fresh farmland, vast herds of free wildlife, and new free land to settle for all."

As an economist, I believe the LACK of the free market was the problem. Public goods weren`t priced correctly leading to a "tragedy of commons". The best example I know of of using the market to regulate the use of public goods is Iceland`s fishing industry. Scientists would first determine a quota that would ensure sustainability and these quotas would be auctioned off to the highest bidders. Gov`t got plenty of funds to police the fishing and fishermen had an interest in policing themselves since they have a stake in future claims on the fish. This is in stark contrast to the communist idea of everybody owns everything and no one has the right to stop from taking from public goods. Fishermen in the EU are like this and they`ve almost depleted their waters of fish (if I don`t take this fish now, someone else will just come in and get it).

Of course it was the greed of the fishermen that did them in. But the question is can you try to stamp out that greed without dictatorial powers and all its inherent risks or is it better to use the market? I don`t think greed is good, that`s why I support the free market and HATE the gov`t meddling in the economy.

Also, I believe firms in pursuit of profit is driving a lot of the research into alternative sources of energy. Success and failure is impossible to gauge but hey, we`ll survive regardless. At least if we eventually have to live in huts again (it`s not that bad), it will be because of the choices we made/make rather than a bureaucrat`s. As a freedom loving person the latter is utterly unbearable, what about for all you guys?

algsure : LVL 13: VP 2.2: said:

algsure

2 votes NegativePositive

112 days 6 hours ago...

haven`t we already signed over our children and our children`s children to lifetimes of financial slavery from the overwhelming debt that our supposed capitalist free market. Its pretty funny how everything this cartoon advocates is pretty much false.

napalm4sd : LVL 30: VP 3.9: said:

napalm4sd

-7 votes NegativePositive

112 days 5 hours ago...

Exploder, the USSR fell because their economy completely COLLAPSED. Silly man.

And quit talking like some kind of anarchist rebel or whatever, you sound stupid.

This whole debate is stupid. Everyone is stupid, politicians, tycoons, etc. ALL stupid. stupid stupid stupid.

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