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Christopher Hitchens - Why Christianity ...

Part 2
Part 1 of the Opening Statement of Christopher Hitchens during a debate with Alister McGrath on October 11th, 2007.

  • Wrykilx
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  • Date 4/8/2009 9:10:26 PM
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15 Comments

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Vukoslavia : LVL 25: VP 3.4: said:

Vukoslavia

4 votes NegativePositive

230 days 3 hours ago...

His eloquence almost makes me feel like i could agree with him about anything. However, having said that, I do agree with him on this one.

erico : LVL 40: VP 4.8: said:

erico

3 votes NegativePositive

230 days 1 hour ago...

5ive.

MANWHORE : LVL 35: VP 4.3: said:

MANWHORE

Hidden (Show Comment) -12 votes

230 days ago...

Just because we dont have a religion or science that can properly explain or represent God, does not neccessarily mean there is no God.

For a scientific look at religion and belief in a God I recommend reading "The road less travelled" by Dr M Scott Peck.

If Dr Peck was still alive he could tear Dawkins arguements to shreads, you can do it yourself by reading Dr Pecks many books.

http://www.mscottpeck.com/

Now I can expect to get voted down by all the "open minded" people here who unquestionably accept science and who believe any notion of God is for stupid people.

JJanGSanGY : LVL 27: VP 3.6: said:

JJanGSanGY

-7 votes NegativePositive

230 days ago...

I would say that there are many better atheists than hitchens. He is neither good at debating, or understanding the basic philosophical arguments against the moral or cosmological arguments which are the crux on which many theists will argue for their faith. Last week, Hitchens, like on many occasions got majorly destroyed by an unknown christian theologists. Most of this speech feels like one big ad hominid.

http://commonsenseatheism.com/?p=1230

He might be eloquent, but that doesn`t really mean anything unless it`s backed by intelligence. I would say however, that he is the best at recycling non-God tag lines in coherency.

1og0s : LVL 19: VP 2.8: said:

1og0s

0 votes NegativePositive

230 days ago...

^ How can science and religion fail when talking about God? Should we look to philosophy? God is a concept derived from human beings, and quite frankly it can mean many different things. The point is how do we know whether this concept exists or not.

We can`t say absolutely that it does or doesn`t, but we can look at our practical, everyday lives and say that relatively speaking, God does not exist. The same way we can say in practicality, fairies and elves don`t exist. There is no deep underlying argument or understanding we`re missing when talking about the existence of God. There might be for the concept of God, but when we ask the question, "Is there a God?", the answer is simple: NO.

Venomousvole : LVL 36: VP 4.4: said:

Venomousvole

-5 votes NegativePositive

229 days 23 hours ago...

"I see that child who lay upon her bosom and who bore my name, a man winning his way up in that path of life which once was mine. I see him winning it so well, that my name is made illustrious there by the light of his. I see the blots I threw upon it, faded away. I see him, foremost of just judges and honoured men, bringing a boy of my name, with a forehead that I know and golden hair, to this place- then fair to look upon, with not a trace of this day`s disfigurement- and I hear him tell the child my story, with a tender and a faltering voice.

"It is a far, far better thing that I do, than I have ever done; it is a far, far better rest that I go to than I have ever known."

-THE END- .

- a tale of two cities.

droper : LVL 25: VP 3.4: said:

droper

2 votes NegativePositive

229 days 16 hours ago...

Fantasy which I think is fair to say religion is is used to trigger a dopaminergic effect in the brain. Once you realize this, why a persons can maintain perceptual beliefs regardless of how obviously unrealistic they are to even them becomes apparent. So if you try and take these fantasies away you will need to dos so in one of 3 ways.

1)Neutralize the root psychological problem that creates the need for the fantasy based chemical release.eg. stresses of life.

2)A replacement that has the produces the same chemical release.eg could be anything including another religion

3)Associate experiences and ideas to the fantasy that prevent them from qualifying in the NN of the brain as a dopaminergic releaser. eg. God killed your family.

It should be clear at this point that religion and fantasy in general are possible due to a evolutionary role in the brain they have played to help us survive as a species.

Kugh : LVL 43: VP 5: said:

Kugh

-7 votes NegativePositive

229 days 11 hours ago...

christian: god loves you

atheist: I want you to know how smart i think i am because i dont believe in god.

lol, which is really more annoying

what alot of atheists dont get is that religion is more of a social thing than a logical one.

Valaur : LVL 34: VP 4.2: said:

Valaur

2 votes NegativePositive

229 days 11 hours ago...

@MANWHORE
Really? Scientific evidence that there is a Zenu or a God, Allah? Really?
God was created by sniveling MEN that wanted more power. They were one of the few that were actually intelligent and used that intellect to suit THEIR needs; more power. They wrote a book called the Bible, and at a time when the illiteracy rate was 99%, they used that to their advantage to spread THEIR word through a being`s "name"; a being that cannot be proven or revoked.

@Kugh
Christians are actually quite intelligent people, it`s the retarded ones that try to preach their beliefs to people who couldn`t give a rats ass is, in my opinion, when they cross the line - that goes for every religion. I know that the concept of God gives people hope, that there is a life after this one, giving people courage to live out their daily lives. I understand that. That`s also Christianity`s greatest strength: fear. The fear that when you die you will be cast into Hell or ascend into Heaven.
The thought of a life after death has plagued EVERYONE at one point or another. Christianity takes advantage of that.
I for one do believe in a higher power, but it isn`t something that we can understand or label. That`s what irks me the most about religion - trying to reduce something so complex, so BEYOND us that the concept of a higher power is utterly ruined because it`s dumbed down so far.

Atheists don`t think they`re smarter then everyone else in the room, they just want to know why people just as smart as they are, or even more intelligent then they are can believe this horse shit. It used to be doctrine for Christians to BURN women or toss them into the river with heavy stones bound to their feet. If they submerged and did not rise to the surface again, they weren`t witches. If they did come back from the depths of their watery grave, they were witches. Guess how many came back?
Does that answer why Atheists are thinking: "WTF?"

Valaur : LVL 34: VP 4.2: said:

Valaur

6 votes NegativePositive

229 days 11 hours ago...

@Kugh

"what alot of atheists dont get is that religion is more of a social thing than a logical one. "

Yeah let`s meet up under the pretense of a zombie space God, who can neither be proved to exist nor can they refute his existence due to a lack of evidence of him ever existing. Let`s also meet every Sunday to sing songs and read from one of the most bloodiest books ever to be written, published and read. Let`s also blame the Jews for killing the space god`s son, who we also don`t have proof of ever existing.

Critical thinking seems to be thrown out the window when religion enters the door.

Don`t get me started on Scientology....

Daydark : LVL 31: VP 4: said:

Daydark

6 votes NegativePositive

229 days 11 hours ago...

@ Kugh

Atheist: use your sense and reason.

christian: convert or you will burn in hell.

Kugh : LVL 43: VP 5: said:

Kugh

-1 votes NegativePositive

229 days 3 hours ago...

exactly my point valaur,

religion is more of a social thing than a logical one
try to understand that MOST people attending a religious institution do it not for their god, but for social interaction.

most atheists, never having been to a church wont really understand this. They just group all people who go to church under the category of religious fanatic who believes in something crazy and illogical.

Think of it sort of as highschool. most people dont learn anything, theyre just kinda there to hang out with their friends who also dont learn anything.

the church today IMO (for the most part*) is really quite harmless. yes there are those who take it to the extreme and they are truely douche bags. but most are just going around helping out starving children in africa, and at the same time acting as a place where people can network and socialize.

MANWHORE : LVL 35: VP 4.3: said:

MANWHORE

-2 votes NegativePositive

229 days 3 hours ago...

The following was written by a scientist Dr Scott Peck :Quote page 214 his book "The road less travelled".

Among the causes of scientific tunnel vision result from the nature of scientific tradition. The first of these is an issue of methodology. In its laudable insistance upon experience, accurate observation and verifiability, science has placed great emphasis upon measurement. To measure something is to experience it in a certain dimension, a dimension in which we can make observations of great accuracy which are repeatable by others. The use of measurement has enabled science to make enormous strides in the understanding of the material universe. But by virtue of its success, measurement has become a kind of scientific idol. The result is an attitude on the part of many scientists of not only skepticism but outright rejection of what cannot be measured. It is as if the were to say "what we cannot measure, we cannot know; there is no point in worrying about what we cannot know; therefore, what cannot be measured is unimportant and unworthy of our observation," Because of this attitude many scientists exclude from their serious consideration all matters that are - or seem to be - intangible. Including, of course, the matter of God.

In another quote/question from Dr Peck " Is it possible that the path of spiritual growth that proceeds from religous superstition to scientific skepticism may indeed ultimately lead us to a genuine religios reality?

sato : LVL 28: VP 3.7: said:

sato

4 votes NegativePositive

228 days 22 hours ago...

~~ manwhore you lost a lot of people with your insinuation that science is not open-minded, when in fact open-mindedness is the underlying principle of science. science starts from nothing and seeks to find the truth, it has no preconceptions. science is incessantly questioned and revised. there are no scientific facts because scientists are so open-minded that they concede that some day they may be proven wrong, hence the *theory* of evolution. can you claim the same open-mindedness of religion? when was the last time the bible was subjected to critical review and revised?

LordMaster : LVL 30: VP 3.9: said:

LordMaster

-2 votes NegativePositive

228 days 14 hours ago...

Why is it impossible to imagine a world where something supernatural exists? Science is great, no doubt, but it`s hardly the end-all argument for our existence. There are things that science is incapable of explaining. Evolution is readily provable, but try to imagine and feel the wonder that those seemingly random mutations coule cause and you`ll begin to look at things differently. What about the Big Bang theory? As credible as it might seem, nothing comes from nothing. That`s the prime causal arguement. There should be no fight between science and someone`s belief. I for one view science as explaining the wonder and power of the universe to me, a tool, nothing more. Acceptance is cool.

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